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	<title>
	Comments on: Plot =&gt; Character (Rituals =&gt; Tribe)	</title>
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	<link>https://www.thestorydepartment.com/plot-character-rituals-tribe/</link>
	<description>Story. Screenplay. Sale.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 16:39:39 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: mike hoste		</title>
		<link>https://www.thestorydepartment.com/plot-character-rituals-tribe/#comment-66</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mike hoste]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 16:39:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1189#comment-66</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[OK Aarhon, way to go. I have to endorse nearly all of that. Just don&#039;t let it make you an iconoclast &#039;to prove a point&#039; or you will fall into the same trap.. of &#039;anti-theory&#039;, so to speak. And I hate anti-conventionalist &#039;theories&#039; about as much as I do &#039;conventionist&#039;!
 
But, the lesson you so eloquently and passionately put is that &#039;analysis is always after the event; it can never ensure a good result or prevent a bad one&#039;. That&#039;s true I think. The only caveat is that you can still &#039;learn&#039; from what others do, which may require working out &#039;just what it is they actually DID&#039;. Rock an&#039; a hard place my friend. haha. Good luck.

As to &#039;convention&#039;, I think it&#039;s not so much a matter of conforming TO it, as working OFF it, and that requires at least a sensitivity to how far you are pushing. Make any sense? Once again, nice site. Mike : &#062;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK Aarhon, way to go. I have to endorse nearly all of that. Just don&#8217;t let it make you an iconoclast &#8216;to prove a point&#8217; or you will fall into the same trap.. of &#8216;anti-theory&#8217;, so to speak. And I hate anti-conventionalist &#8216;theories&#8217; about as much as I do &#8216;conventionist&#8217;!</p>
<p>But, the lesson you so eloquently and passionately put is that &#8216;analysis is always after the event; it can never ensure a good result or prevent a bad one&#8217;. That&#8217;s true I think. The only caveat is that you can still &#8216;learn&#8217; from what others do, which may require working out &#8216;just what it is they actually DID&#8217;. Rock an&#8217; a hard place my friend. haha. Good luck.</p>
<p>As to &#8216;convention&#8217;, I think it&#8217;s not so much a matter of conforming TO it, as working OFF it, and that requires at least a sensitivity to how far you are pushing. Make any sense? Once again, nice site. Mike : &gt;</p>
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		<title>
		By: storydude		</title>
		<link>https://www.thestorydepartment.com/plot-character-rituals-tribe/#comment-65</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[storydude]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 04:10:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1189#comment-65</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;A critic on the other hand might ‘expect’ a certain structure to be adhered to but not an audience.&quot;

I would say: it&#039;s exactly the other way around.

More comments, please!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;A critic on the other hand might ‘expect’ a certain structure to be adhered to but not an audience.&#8221;</p>
<p>I would say: it&#8217;s exactly the other way around.</p>
<p>More comments, please!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Aarhon		</title>
		<link>https://www.thestorydepartment.com/plot-character-rituals-tribe/#comment-64</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Aarhon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 00:21:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1189#comment-64</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Quite frankly I am sick to death of the plot vs character argument. Like the plots of so many films that have no heart, it leaves me cold. Do I know or care as an emerging writer/film maker whether it is the egg or the chicken? No. Am I passionate about telling stories via film, yes.  

I think all an audience &#039;expects&#039; is to be entertained or moved in some way. A critic on the other hand might &#039;expect&#039; a certain structure to be adhered to but not an audience. Anybody can follow the &#039;hero&#039;s&#039; journey and still fail to make a great film. Anybody can get in touch with their ‘tribe’ and fail to touch anyone but their mother. Anyone can write a story, imagine character&#039;s actions and situations and still fail to tell a good story or get the script read.

Film making can be an organic experience for all involved, I am tired of the creative process being crammed into the &#039;correct structure&#039; to be deemed great. 

I am trying to learn film making and writing. This argument only confuses me and makes it more difficult to achieve success. It intellectualizes a craft which inherently and simply requires hard work, imagination, heart and soul and experience yet at the same time turns our creative attempts into film making dogma. I will endeavor to continue my learning but it is frustrating to feel as though, as a student, I am caught in a war of the roses about what the correct way to write a screenplay or tell a story is. And, I, as an audience member feel insulted by the opinion that I just want to see more of the same because that is all I am capable of understanding as a creature of someone else&#039;s habit! 

Arguments, opinions, and beliefs about what is right is great guys but I think I am going to develop my own ideas from here on out and leave the &#039;correct&#039; way of doing things to the religious right and the police.

I have been studying both plot-driven and character-driven theories. Both ways have their positives and negatives, and from where I am sitting right now they have one thing in common: driven by egos and traditions that smother creativity. Not interested.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quite frankly I am sick to death of the plot vs character argument. Like the plots of so many films that have no heart, it leaves me cold. Do I know or care as an emerging writer/film maker whether it is the egg or the chicken? No. Am I passionate about telling stories via film, yes.  </p>
<p>I think all an audience &#8216;expects&#8217; is to be entertained or moved in some way. A critic on the other hand might &#8216;expect&#8217; a certain structure to be adhered to but not an audience. Anybody can follow the &#8216;hero&#8217;s&#8217; journey and still fail to make a great film. Anybody can get in touch with their ‘tribe’ and fail to touch anyone but their mother. Anyone can write a story, imagine character&#8217;s actions and situations and still fail to tell a good story or get the script read.</p>
<p>Film making can be an organic experience for all involved, I am tired of the creative process being crammed into the &#8216;correct structure&#8217; to be deemed great. </p>
<p>I am trying to learn film making and writing. This argument only confuses me and makes it more difficult to achieve success. It intellectualizes a craft which inherently and simply requires hard work, imagination, heart and soul and experience yet at the same time turns our creative attempts into film making dogma. I will endeavor to continue my learning but it is frustrating to feel as though, as a student, I am caught in a war of the roses about what the correct way to write a screenplay or tell a story is. And, I, as an audience member feel insulted by the opinion that I just want to see more of the same because that is all I am capable of understanding as a creature of someone else&#8217;s habit! </p>
<p>Arguments, opinions, and beliefs about what is right is great guys but I think I am going to develop my own ideas from here on out and leave the &#8216;correct&#8217; way of doing things to the religious right and the police.</p>
<p>I have been studying both plot-driven and character-driven theories. Both ways have their positives and negatives, and from where I am sitting right now they have one thing in common: driven by egos and traditions that smother creativity. Not interested.</p>
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