I think you are confused, his book is a separate product than the breakdowns.

Fairy tales are excellent. What’s Iron Man if it’s not a fairytale of sorts. I think you can learn a lot from them

I meant to say that, yes, I generally agree with what you’re saying.

The books clarify and cloud. It’s up to you to take what helps you from them. And you know what you need when you write.

Screenwriters communicate their intention – and that can be to the director and even the DOP.

Kal Bashir doesn’t include films showing the full journey, but his cycle analysis is certainly useful!

Hey Simon,

I know this comment of yours was from 4 years ago,

BUT… :)

2 things in it strike me as pure bright shining gold, here (ie – that you said): namely – your opening and closing remarks in that Comment…

1) “For a theory to be of any value then it must be able to make predictions about the reality it addresses.”

– This was actually the exact reason I undertook my doctoral research on screenwriting… which of course Karel (and the gang here at The Story Dept) have kindly invited me to guest-post…
(Backstory: For 20 years, I kept looking for a film Story Theory that would actually predict something (other than: `this should work…maybe…?’), actually using: The Scientific Method. And – I never found one. And thus: my research.)

2) “For such an ancient human activity it’s surprising that there is still no generally accepted definition of Story. It appears to be a generic term that we all understand – or do we?”

This actually cracks me up, as it’s so true. Ask 3 random screenwriters what `Story’ is and you will most likely get 3 answers.
Exactly the same with: “Define Creativity.”
…Fascinating, non?

I actually have a definition of `Story’ that I (tentatively) propose in my thesis. (Of course: whether it ever becomes `generally accepted’ or not – is another matter.)
It’s not actually my own definition. (I didn’t invent it.)
But – it is the best one I have ever found so far. (In searching through: literally hundreds of books in the literature on screenwriting, story, narrative – etc)

I also once published a free Literature Survey (a summary of over 100 books on Story/Screenwriting).
It’s here, if it’s of interest: https://uws.academia.edu/JTVelikovsky/

(ie – The Feature Screenwriter’s Workbook)
It’s used on a lot of universities as a `subject introduction’ (to Screenwriting).

And by the way – even so (even with a summary of over 100 texts) it doesn’t actually contain the definition of `Story’ that I’m now referring to :)
LOL

Which – also makes me wonder, philosophically: How can we `centralize’ the knowledge on Screenwriting?
– How does any (other) Creative Domain actually do it? (eg – Physics, Maths, Music, etc?)
There are of course: industry – and academic – conferences, journals, popular texts, etc (for all creative domains) –

But: discoveries in Academia – generally – take *around 7 years* on average to `filter out’ into the Field (ie – Industry/general practise) and – by then – they’ve (academia) already moved on, and: are still `7 years ahead’…)
To quote Wile E. Coyote – `Yikes’.

A Burning Q: How to close that 7-year gap???

LOL

(Hmm – well; actually: a blog like The Story Dept is a great start…)

Cheers

JT

PS – I mean, hey, it only took me 4 years to respond to your and Karel’s Comments on this (fascinating) topic. On the bright side, maybe that’s exactly 4/7ths better than: 7 years..? :)

Goldmith – you need to distinguish with diegetic and non-diegetic. As screenwriters it is not our business what a director does. We need to make the story work without non-diegetic elements. Period.

Be wary of Kal Bashir’s Hero’s Journey – foolishly buying his product caused a lot of wasted energy and grief. It is not what he advertises it as on his site and i had to report him to Amex and PayPal to get my money back as he refused to do so. On his site he uses examples of films and alludes that to get the detailed film breakdowns you need to buy his product but when you receive his ebook – there are absolutely none included. Not even one film showing the full journey.